Toyo Returns Fire:

strong>* Ononokpono has lost touch
* Nelson Effiong won the primary*There is no PDP in AKS
* I was offered more than N250m to stop Akpabio
* APICO Ag MD is Akpabio's Cousin, so what?strong>
The immediate past state chairman of the ruling PDP, Arc Otu Ita Toyo is an interviewer's delight. He confronts any question with the forthrightness than earned him the name “Total Chair” when he held sway as party chairman. He responded to questions raised in our last interview with Elder Effiong Ononokpono. He also fielded answers to so many other issues. He spoke to Weekly Insight's Franklyn Isong, the man many now call Larry King of Akwa Ibom political interviews. Enjoy this “Total” serving.

Sir, you read in our last edition of the allegations made against your person by Elder Effiong Eso Ononokpono, that you sold out the chance of Oro nation in the 2007 PDP primaries for Eket senatorial seat to Senator Eme Ekaette of Onna LGA. What is your reaction to that?
I think his statement was consistent with his inconsistency in the entire interview, he says there is no PDP, but he also said that he is a member of PDP, I quite don't understand that. He made so many inconsistent remarks that am persuaded not to bother about them because, that may be just one of the inconsistencies but be that as it may, I don't have to deny anything from Effiong Ononokpono. He is talking about a situation which took place with over 30,000 people, so I have 30,000 witnesses, and all I ask is that he produce one out of 30,000 witnesses who will stand up and say I (Toyo) took bribe from him or her. It is just that simple. There is absolutely no basis for the allegation, it amazes me that a man who says he is a leader can talk like that, and he says he confronted me, I have not seen the man for 2 or 3 years now. I recall that when we were doing this thing he is talking about, my taking bribe, for very personal reason, I suspect he was indisposed. So if anything at all, he is even talking not out of first hand knowledge and he does not even have the courtesy to quote the person who told him, he is talking as if he knows what he is talking about, ask him, where was he during the nominations, during the elections? Ask him. I know he was indisposed.

How do you mean, he was indisposed?
He was not there, during the event (2007 PDP primaries); he had personal reasons not to be there. It is only him who will tell us whether he was there or not.

Did you actually sell out the chances of the Oro people to the Onna people in the 2007 PDP senatorial primaries?
In what sense?

Ononokpono alleged that the people of Ikot Abasi and Onna LGAs said that the 2007 Eket Senatorial seat was for Oro nation, but you sold it out to the Onna people.
This is the point am making. He says Onna people said they don't want it, so why did they take it? Then he said Ikot Abasi people said, they don't want it, then he said Oro people who now wanted it, I took it from them. Does that make sense? Whom did I take it from and gave to who? I took it from Oro who wanted it perhaps and gave it to someone who didn't want it. Would you take something you do not want? Let's leave that and go to the fact. The nomination for the PDP was won by an Oro son, his name is Nelson Effiong, and he was disqualified according to the rules of the party (PDP) on thuggery reasons. So, was I also the one who caused Nelson Effiong to indulge in thuggery? So that I can take it and give to Onna? So, this shows you the kind of logic running through what the gentleman (Ononokpono) said. It is completely illogical, if you get my drift. So, there was no such thing and Mrs Eme Ekaette is a very worthy Senator; deserving of the position and went through the nomination exercise, one of the most rigorous in the state. She was according to the party's findings denied the first chance because, her opponent deployed thugs, and according to the rules of the game, it was decided in Abuja (PDP headquarters), let that opponent be disqualified. So how do I come in there? I come in because I decided to do nomination and I was perhaps the only party chairman in the country who did nomination and my record as party chairman is impeccable, I do not need to talk about myself, the PDP has over 3 million members, go to the streets and ask them their opinion about me. Two years out of office, they will tell you what they think of me and that should be the definitive assessment of my tenure as the chairman.

Some of the people who called after the publication of Comrade Ononokpono's interview, also alleged that you took money from Governor Godswill Akpabio, they mentioned N250 million to buy the PDP governorship ticket in 2007. They alleged that, that was why the governor refused to support your south-south zonal chairmanship contest of the party, because according them; he has settled you in the efforts you made to make him the state governor. What is your comment on that?
Let us also state the fact, is it because Godswill gave me N250 million that he won the nomination? The facts on the ground are simply; Godswill Akpabio won the nomination in the full glare of the entire party. So, how could I have been the one who gave him the nomination with over 3,000 delegates voting? How does that square?

Your accusers alleged that because of the N250m you received, you refused all attempts to have a re-run in the 2007 PDP primaries between Chief Godswill Akpabio and Dr Udoma Bob Ekarika based on the party's guideline.
(Cuts in) That is correct; there should have been a re-run.

And the N250m allegation?
Am I the one who now makes decisions for the party at the centre? Is it possible for a state chairman to sit down and say, there will be no re-run? Is this the only state that had no re-run? The reason there was no re-run is very simple. There was only 3 days between the re-run and the national convention, and they sat in Abuja, because this very people would not conduct themselves properly, so they took almost 2 weeks to do nomination, and by that time, they had caught up with the time. The correct people were ready for nomination but these story-tellers, kept going round and round and round. So, when Udoma (Ekarika) and Godswill (Akpabio) did not have the required 50%, we had to ask what to do, because in another 72 hours was the national convention, and the national said that every state which had not concluded their nomination exercise on time and have not sent in the result of that nomination exercise as at that moment, should send in the name of the highest vote-getter and that will be our flag bearer. It is simple; you see people talk out of ignorance and, I'm in sympathy with them really, because many of them do not even have any idea about how party works. So I can understand and I have sympathy for those who do not take time to unearth the issues. It is easy to say took money, what is N250 million? It is nothing? And for the records, I was offered a lot more than that to throw his (Akpabio) nomination, for the records I am saying, I was offered a lot more than that.

By who?
I don't have to say, I'm not like them that was an offer I rejected it, and that is the end of it.

Was it by those who opposed Chief Akpabio's nomination?
Naturally, it could not have been people who wanted his (Akpabio)'s nomination, who said I should take money and throw it.

They also brought up the issue of PDP local government chairmanship consensus in 2008?
(Cuts in) That is correct.

They alleged that you addressed all the PDP LG chairmanship aspirants in the party's state secretariat in 2008, and told them that Ordinary National Diploma (OND) certificate was the minimum qualification for their primaries. But that you did not follow your guideline to the letter; that those who latter emerged from your consensus arrangement, some of them do not even possess secondary school certificate, because of the money you took from them. What is your reaction?
What happened was that, even the people who are talking were too cowardly to defend their positions, even after I had given them a platform. They went home, all they wanted was the party to disqualify people and it did not work. You do not disqualify people who have been to the grassroots and earned their living, if they supported that issue, why did they not out manoeuvre the people who have no degrees? I'm not in support of the people who had no degree, because I was the party chairman, everybody knows that, but we are in a party and the party constitution does not say that you need a degree to go. I was just setting a standard for our state, and for them who are making the noise, to say this is a good thing, we will support it and we will have nothing less. It would have been possible, but they all sat there, it is easier to say, he had taken money. Who among the local government chairmen now, had up to N10, 000 before they became local government chairman? I mean no disrespect. So, how much would they have given to me?

They alleged that you acted the script of the state governor and that of AKPF, so that the governor could through that means compensate the AKPF members. That, the governor would not have got the 31 local government councils chairmen, if it were open PDP primaries. What do you have to say?
What are my records, the record says that in spite of the State Governor's insistence, I stood and opposed the changing of a nomination which took place in my state. My records are that in spite of AKPF significance, I went to their convention and told them that they were nothing, but a pressure group and have absolutely no influence over party issues. Those are my records, so what are they talking about.

Looking at the records of the 31 local government councils' chairmen in the state, its seems they are of the AKPF arrangement?
(Cuts in) I do not know members of the AKPF; I did not even recognise AKPF as a force in what we were doing. I did not see them at the elections; I did not see them anywhere. They probably were there, doing things for Godswill Akpabio as a candidate, beyond that I don't think they have any relevance. Those who now ascribe relevance to them should worry about that and not me.

I think, I have to agree with you that in your tenure as the State Chairman of the ruling party (PDP) in Akwa Ibom, there were no political groups as you have now….
(Cuts in) You couldn't have had it, because I insisted that they will not be there.

So, why do you now have over 200 groups working in your party, PDP, just for a particular aspirant in the state?
I don't speak for the party (PDP) no more! I'm just like you, looking and wondering what's going on. The party has a de-facto chairman, only he can speak on that.

In your opinion, do you think democracy can actually grow in Akwa Ibom state with the presence of these groups in your PDP....?
(Cut-in) If it was at the time I was the chairman, no! It wouldn't have worked well. But may be, things have changed and I must give it to the chairman to have his own style and also meet the demands of the environment he has met.

You said chairman, do you have a chairman of your party, PDP, in the state?
We've always had one, I handed over to Uwem Ita Etuk.

But there is a controversy surrounding his nomination or his chairmanship position in the state PDP?
(Cut-in) There is not any. His chairmanship was approved by the party, the processes which went to making him chairman was constitutional. In fact, there was no opposition to his chairmanship until lately, so how come he has stayed 2 years and then suddenly it is discovered that he is no longer the chairman, how come?

The former state Governor, Arc. Victor Attah, said that he and other stakeholders of PDP from Uyo senatorial district, where the position is zoned to, were not present when Uwem Ita Etuk emerged through a consensus to be the State Chairman of the party, and that they do not recognise him as the chairman of the PDP in Akwa Ibom. What is your position…?
(Cuts in) Let me put this to you. I am not the consensus person; I am an ex-party chairman working according to the constitution of my party. We issued forms, people bought forms, according to the guidelines of the party, and they went filled the forms. The consensus was now a community thing, because there is a party and there is a community. Don't forget, if the community now calls its people and say to them; listen, we don't want too many people, let us now solve it between ourselves. How am I supposed to worry about that, when we went for congress, those who returned forms, came out as party chairmen, or party executives, and for 2 years there was silence, until people returned from Abuja and started making noise?

You emerged from Abuja front to be the PDP chairman in Akwa Ibom state, why don't you support the present move by call it: “Abuja front” to also produce the chairman of your party in the state, after you left office?
I'm quiet because, I watched that exercise and I know it's a ….. I emerged as a result of a counter congress which was legitimately held, approved by the party hierarchy in Abuja. I did not emerge from Abuja group, no sir; I emerged from a properly constituted congress of the party in this state, which voted me in, as chairman, which perhaps made it easy for the sitting Governor at that time to accept me.

Senator Ike Nwanchukwu's Elders reconciliation and peace committee visited the state to reconcile these factions within the PDP, were they able to achieve their targets?
As far as I could see, there was total reconciliation.

But, Obong Attah personally spoke to me, that he told the Ike Nwanchukwu's panel that the apologies tendered to him by Uwem Ita Etuk and his state exco were accepted, but Uwem Ita Etuk is not recognised as the chairman of the PDP in Akwa Ibom state…?
(Cut-in) Who cares? I don't have the qualifications to comment on His Excellency's statements. As you recall, he is my master and he probably knows what he is talking about, the much I can say is that, I know that he (Attah) accepted the reconciliation, and from my own point of view, there was no controversy over who the Chairman is? Because, I know he emerged legitimately. So the reconciliation could have been on other issues, which bothers on certain actions which caused the old man (Attah)'s displeasure and he is a ranking member of our party; a founding member of our party; a viable member of the board of trustees. There may have been things which made him unhappy and apologies offered for that, and I suspect, he gladly, as a father, accepted those apologies. I was not involved in the business of controversy over the party's executives, because what I know is that, there is a legitimate party executive in the state.

Is there any parallel exco in Akwa Ibom state?
There can't be any. We are in the PDP, of course, there can't be.

Let's move to another issue that came up.....?
(Cuts in) Let me even ask you. The man (Ononokpono) had 2 full pages of interview and about 10 lines about me, how come I took over the interview?

(Cuts-in) Well, it has to do with interviews….
General Laughter

There is this issue of APICO where you happened to be the Chairman of the board, what is happening in APICO at the moment?
APICO is busy trying to sort out the housing issues of the state. We are still working with the ministry of Housing and Urban Development with the Governor and when there is housing development in the state, you will see what we have done.

It is widely speculated in the state that APICO have been starved of funds by the Governor, because he doesn't want you to function effectively in your position as the Chairman, so as to frustrate you. What is the position?
Well, I think the Governor is the best person to answer that question. I'm not aware that he has starved me of funds, but people have their own opinion, so, I suspect that you should ask that to His Excellency.

Where is the managing director of APICO?
He is on leave.

Compulsory leave?
He is not on compulsory leave. In fact, he has leave that extends to January next year.

Is he under any kind of probe or investigation?
I do not know that, there is any investigation going on in APICO.

So, who is now your acting MD?
The acting MD of APICO is Barr. Aniedi Akpabio.

It is also widely rumoured in the state, that your acting MD is Governor Godswill Akpabio's cousin. Can you contradict that?
It's certainly, he is.

Is it justified that the governor's cousin should be the acting MD APICO?
He is the most senior AGM who have been in APICO; he was even senior to the current acting managing director when he was side stepped. Now, tell me because you have the same surname with the Governor, he should not be on your birthright? Why are our people like this?

Reports have it that your staff salaries have not being paid for some couple of months now?
As far as I know, they have been paid their salary.

(Cuts-in) To be precise, some of your staffers have complained that for the past 3 to 4 months now that they have not been paid their salaries. What is really happening in APICO?
I leave them to worry about that actually, because my records speak that they have been paid.

You contested the PDP south-south zonal chairmanship position….
(Cuts-in) That's correct.

What happened, how did Chief Edet Mkpubre emerge?
Well, I did not contest, that is the point, there was a controversy over my contest and I did not come in for the contest, eventually and just because I didn't take it up, it died a natural death because, for me, offices come and go. I use offices for service and not the other way round. So, if I cannot get an office, I can do service in another platform. So that was it.

You said there was controversy over your contest, what was the controversy?
Well, I got a letter from the National Chairman, which said; I was disqualified from running because there was a petition against me. Now, how do you disqualify a man over porous petition, who had not been shown the petition till this day and had not even been asked to defend himself at all? Does that sound correct? Well! Our party has its own hiccups and I am a party man, if am anything at all. So, I knew that this was just going down a tunnel that will lead to unnecessary rancour. Whereas it really doesn't matter who becomes the chairman of the South-South, as indeed you have seen. The gentle man ably qualified as south-south chairman emerged and I believe he is doing the job very well. I didn't have to be there for the job to be done, it is being done by another man.

Did you protest your disqualification from contesting the position in anyway?
I didn't, it died a natural death, because I did not, have you not seen me in a party at national and local level doing things. It was just rascality by those who didn't want my face.

It is said that the Governor personally opposed you from becoming the south-south chairman of your party, PDP, because he has settled you with N250 million for given the party's ticket to him….
(Cuts-in)That itself is something the Governor should answer, it is not a question for me, Franklyn, I do not know about any N250 million and if it is said that it came from the Governor, then maybe somebody took it midway and it didn't get to me.

This issue of Oro nation endorsing Governor Akpabio for his second term bid in 2011 is actually what lead to the interview with Elder Ononokpono. What is your position on that issue?
That is correct. My position is that I was in the stadium on the 6th of December last year (2008), in Oron in which the entire Oro structures as I know it; traditional, political women, youths went there and in their address read by the Oro union president, indicated that they want Akpabio to go for a second term. I am an Oro man, and I know those signs. So, if anybody says Oro people did not adopt Akpabio for second term, I leave the person to worry about that and show me why he or she says so. I stand on the platform of what we did as a group; as a people on the 6th of December last year (2008).

Do you have a copy of that address with you, I mean, the one presented to the governor on that occasion?
No! I don't. Where were you? It was covered in the whole state. Oh! Insight, my goodness, you don't have a library or something?

But, in the cause of our interactions with some Chiefs and Elders of Oro nation, they said that the adoption of the governor was not in the agenda and programme of the December 6, 2008 event, you are talking about. While an informed source in Oron LGA who incidentally was in the planning committee of the occasion, said that in the speech that was presented to the governor in the event, which the Governor has an advance copy, there was no issue of his endorsement or adoption. Rather, that the endorsement issue only came up when one Barr. Bassey Abia Bassey, whom according to source, was Governor Godswill Akpabio's Law teacher at the University of Calabar, when he read out a piece of note drafted by him in the event to say that, “Oro nation have endorsed Governor Godswill Obot Akpabio”, against Oro peoples' wishes. That Barr. Bassey did that at about 4pm when Chiefs have left. What is your reaction to that insinuation?
Is it the Chiefs who said so? No, no, no, I wonder if it was the Chiefs, who said they were not there. Because, I have just told you that when this thing happened my Chiefs were there and the people. Now, that is a difficult one now. Because, if you are telling me now, that you have been to the Chiefs and the Chiefs said they were not there, I am in a difficult situation because I saw them and if they say they were not there, of course, you know the Chiefs can't lie. Except, that I know what I saw and (general laughter). So, I don't know whether it was the Chiefs who told you, but I know that the Chiefs were there and this proposition was made and acclaimed by everybody and up to this date, I have not seen an organized group from Oro come out and say that that was not what happened.

Is politics of adoption of a particular aspirant by a particular group(s) against many other aspirants and even before election is healthy for Akwa Ibom State political atmosphere?
I don't think adoption precludes contest. This is the thing about folks who don't understand this thing; adoptions just say this is my preference end of story. If you think that doesn't work, you go contest. If I come to you and I say, I prefer Mr. A, I adopt Mr A, you can say to me, go to hell. You will contest under the law; under the constitution. I will go and of course, I will vote for Mr A; you get the people, who will vote for you. Why does that border you, if I adopt somebody? In fact, it is absolutely democratic and constitution.

One of your sons, Engr. Larry Esin, has left the PDP to the PPA; don't you think that his action to join the PPA was in protest of that action?
Let me just ask you a question, did Larry Esin mention that he went to PPA in protest?

This is the assumption in the minds of people?
No, no, no, you see people assumed. They assumed I took bribe, they assumed Oro did not adopt Akpabio; they assumed things. Now, it is important to reach Larry and say Larry, are you in PPA as a protest against PDP? Then, I can take that.

Reports have it that Governor Akpabio frustrated the coronation ceremony of the Ahta Oro V three times and that the very December 6, 2008 reception, which you said he was adopted, that he didn't honour it, rather that he sent his deputy, Engr. Patrick Ekpotu to represent him in the event. What is your take?
Ok! The reception of the Ahta Oro V, the Governor was not there. I know and that happens in many instances. I don't know why the Governor didn't come. I was not a member of the organizing committee, so I can not really insinuate that there were frustrations and none of that. I don't know anything about that. I just know that you are correct; the Governor was represented by the Deputy Governor and for me that happens.

In your own assessment, do you think Governor Akpabio deserves a second term?
This is when you are talking now, and my answer is absolutely yes!

What are your assessment indices?
I will name them. Governor Akpabio is pound for pound perhaps the most successful governor infrastructurally in Nigeria; he has done those things perhaps which take some boldness to do. As you can see, he is only two years in office and commissioning things. This is in direct contrast to our experiences and you can understand why. I mean, he has got some money alright, but he also got the will. You can see his boldness in the projects he has under taken: the roads, the hospitals, the free education, if you don't have a heart of steel, you can pick it on. (Late Michael) Opara tried it in the Eastern Nigeria it collapsed; only men of steel like (Late Chief Obafemi) Awolowo could succeed. So, these are big things. I predict to you that in 25 to 30 years Akpabio's free education will win a Nobel price.

That brings us to the assessment of the free education in the state. Comrade Ononokpono who is an Awoist, in his critical analysis of the state government free education, concluded that there is no free education is Akwa Ibom State. What is your reaction?
I can assure you that Ononokpono did not tell you, he was among those who planned the free education in the time of Awolowo and certainly, he did not plan it. Because, he has absolutely no qualification to plan it for (Late Chief Obafemi) Awolowo. I am assured, he did not say so. He has no qualification to do that and having said that, following on what I have just said, Ononokpono certainly does not have the qualification to assess Akpabio's free education. We are talking of a dialogue of a deaf now.

How do you mean, Ononokpono is not qualified to assess governor Akpabio's free education?
Except in general terms, like you and I, and that can't be taken as the valid judgement of an expert.

But, he is one of your leaders in Oro nation?
Oh! Precisely, he can talk about the people he leads. I am sure he has qualification for that. Is he an educationist? Is he remotely concerned with any educational project ever before? I don't think so. So we should limit ourselves to what we know. If he had talked about it in a general way, you could say well! He is not satisfied with certain things as a citizen who has the right to be or not to be satisfied.

His assessment was based on the statistics….?
(Cuts in) Does he have those figures? If he doesn't have those figures, then he has no right to pass judgement.

In your opinion, is the free education working in Akwa Ibom state?
I think, it is working; I think, it is in the infancy; I think, the beginning of a dream; I think, it will come to fruition eventually; I think, there will be more schools; there will be more teachers; there will be more everything; I think, it takes time; and I think, (Governor) Akpabio should be praised for the courage to institute it. And, one thing that endeared me to this free education is, it is for the people of Akwa Ibom State, not for indigenes; it is for everybody who lives here (Akwa Ibom State). So, even if you are Hausa, Yoruba, and Igbo the moment you step foot in Akwa Ibom State, you have free education. Isn't that wonderful? And, you say the man doesn't deserve a second term? I will give him a third term. If he is going to give education to my people, because that is all we need, education. Tar Solari said, even if the very devil gives you free education take it, take it! Because, it is the foundation of everything. So, if Akpabio is looking for third term, he has a candidate in me, I will give him, provided he gives us free education.

So, what is your final word to Ononokpono?
I don't comment on people. I am extremely disappointed that a man of his calibre, as he indeed tried to portray in that interview could come out with statements which are unfounded and on certain cases are outright lie. I am extremely confounded, that he could allow himself to get to that point and I suspect, I hope he is not losing his touch, because there was a time I thought he has a little of it in him, just now I'm doubtful.

Are you saying he has lost touch?
(Cuts in) I hope he is not losing his touch; I'm in fact, prayerful, because I have seen signs of that in that his interview.

What are you implying?
Oh! If he had a touch at all, it is absent in that interview.

What touch do you mean?
In getting things; stating cases properly and commenting on issues factually.

Before you left office as the PDP Chairman, you had the plan to call all the PDP chairmanship aspirants, who lost out as a result of the consensus arrangement of the party…..?
(Cuts in) That is correct.

What happened that the arrangement wasn't successful?
As I told you, I don't speak for the PDP now!

As at then, what happened?
Oh! Then, it was a proposal which was left on my desk, and the party continues. So I suspect that the chairman may have called them, I am not sure, I can't comment on that. The chairman is in-charge.

Do you like politics of consensus?
As a matter of the level of our polity, it is a very ingenuous arrangement provided that it is done with honesty.

Give a word of advice to the Oro nation?
I don't have the qualification to advice anybody, all I can say is, let's work hard; keep our targets in view, and be disciplined.

Editor's Note: Ita Toyo, had earlier spoken to our reporter Kate Etiamana, it was also very revealing and interesting. We will serve you that edition in the Friday edition ofyour independent voice. If you have anything important to say, the platform is Weekly Insight. Keep a date with us.